It won’t “crush the virus” until the most people follow real medical advice. If even 20% run around spreading it the “shutdown” won’t work. THANKS DONNIE.
IF we had had a hard shutdown. And IF we had used that time to set up good testing and tracing, and started pushing hard on the public service ads explaining how … and WHY to keep on wearing masks, and keeping on keeping on, which is what we would have had to accept in order to get off as lightly as possible… THEN… perhaps we would have done as well as possible. And it hasn’t crushed most souls, though I suppose the folks who really REALLY wanted it to be a hoax might feel that way.
I love how people like Baghdad Bok seem to think that if you don’t expose yourself to Covid, you’ll succumb to drugs, depression, and suicide. Maybe of the government were to do something, like, support people who are trying to stay safe, there would be less of the latter, and where are they getting the drugs? Seems they’re ignoring the shutdown to get drugs, so that can’t factor into it.
Living in a city that did “crush the virus”, let me tell you it took months to do and the levels of restrictions were very tight. Of course it did help that the disease had not been politicised. We are all still being VERY careful here.
Shut down don’t do anything against the virus. The shutdown can only slow the spread so hospitals don’t become overwhelmed. Speaking of which, don’t get hurt in southern Idaho
In Victoria Australia we were on around 250 cases and 10 deaths, shut down and had mandatory mask wearing throughout the state, state peaked at just under 800 cases & around 25 deaths around 2 weeks later, this is equivalent (pro-rata) to 50,000 cases & 1,500 deaths for the US which were approximately the case load but higher death rate. The government and the state stuck to the guns for a further 6-8 weeks, currently we have 16 days straight, no cases, no deaths. Before you talk about testing, we do 15,000 -25,000 tests daily, equivalent to 1 – 1.5 million US tests. I don’t believe that you can do it now because of the partisanship but hopefully you can start to peg it back
The virus was brought to a much more manageable level despite the lack of a national response. That is, it helped where there actually were lockdown, pauses, mask mandates and social distancing rules. But most of the country ignored those science-informed guidelines and called it all a hoax. Too many commenters on this very site said, “Nobody’s going to tell ME what to do!” I seem to remember armed hooligans taking over the Michigan state house and plotting to kidnap and kill their governor over mask mandates. So, no, it was never crushed because it was never managed. And for the record, the scientists said from the beginning that these things come in waves, and that it would OT be “crushed” until there was an effective vaccine. The plan till then was simply to keep as many people as possible from dying. Sadly, the national leadership calculated that keeping people alive was not in their political interest.
If even 60% of the population had followed medical guidelines for wearing masks and social distancing and contact tracing had been instituted like in SE Asian nations which suffered far fewer deaths, COVFEFE-45 might have been controlled months ago. Instead Former-PINO Trump first politicized it before totally ignoring the worst pandemic since 1918, showing his total and complete lack of both leadership abilities and compassion.
With a few ounces of enthusiasm from trump.. And.. staying the course.. you would not be in nearly the dire straights you find yourself now. Your “cheerleader” led you astray.. now you suffer.
“Your” people keep shooting themselves in the foot, Chip. Had so many ‘anti-mask’ yahoos not ignored the recommendations of epidemiology experts, we wouldn’t be here. Thanks to those wackos, my state is even considering a frickin’ curfew. That I have to suffer because of them – and people like you – royally pisses me off.
If insanely stupid republicans had controlled the deadly virus in February like every expert told them to instead of encouraging its spread all over the USA we would not be in this position.
Well, it’s true that conservatives, especially Trump supporters are incredible weak snowflakes. they talk big and tough. they love to pose and evoke an image of our rugged forefathers; but they crumbled under the least inconveniences. As always though, Bok has an uncanny way of rejecting facts and reality. In this case, the shutdown. the plan only works of people cooperate and he has belittled it and opposed it from the start.
I’d rather be bored than dead. I think. I have plenty to do around here and a couple of good hobbies, no close neighbors, and live in a rural area. I am fortunate. I sympathize for those who are truly suffering.
Cases don’t equal infections. The PRC test should only be run 25 cycles. They are running them at 35-40 cycles. Torture the data long enough, and you can get the result you’re looking for, i.e., false positives and an excuse to extend unconstitutional lockdowns.
Lockdowns have never worked to contain a pandemic. Until the current insanity, doctors knew they do not work. There were flu pandemics during 1957-58 and 1969-1970, that killed (adjusted for population) about as many people as this one. But people have forgotten science, forgotten history, forgotten common sense. I bet few people alive then even remember — or even knew! — a pandemic was occurring during Woodstock…
Lockdowns, masks, social distancing (I’m sick of that phrase…), hand scrubbing, scrubbing down surfaces…none of them have worked to contain coronavirus. Until we achieve collective immunity—which just means the virus becomes ENdemic rather than pandemic—this will continue. (And the common cold is a coronavirus. Millions of people have partial or full immunity to coronavirus because they had common colds in the past.) Coronaviruses return every year. Cyclical.
And for a disease that is 99.9+% survivable, the millions of excess lives LOST due to lockdowns is unconscionable. (Up to 130 million people in poor countries are at risk of starvation due to downturns in the world economy. Not to mention the increases in cancer deaths, suicides, domestic abuse, postponed surgical and other medical procedures that harm or kill people, millions of people losing their jobs, hundreds of thousands of businesses permanently gone, on and on and on.) Anyone who has a steady income or who can sit comfortably and work from home, needs to keep their nonsense to themselves.
@*MuddyUSA* : You know well that (and Biden does too) if the country is locked down almost 50 % of the country will ignore it. Biden knows reality and has to figure out the best path even for those who oppose him.
I just listened to a woman who lost both her husband’s parents (both registered democrats) to covid in NY due to the Governor’s policy to place covid patients in assisted living facilities. Both were trucked to the hospital just before they died, so in NY those deaths don’t count as a nursing home death. ONLY NY does that sort of shifty counting – all other states count those as nursing home deaths. The real number of nursing home covid deaths in NY is estimated to be more than double the official number.
It is quite amazing when you look at the stats from various countries… say, looking at deaths per million.
England, France, Canada, etc. are all looking at a second wave, but the US is still in the first wave… it never stopped, it didn’t slow down over the summer like in every other developed country.
Wearing a mask and minimizing interpersonal contact to slow the spread has nothing to do with politics or personal freedom. As a civilization we simply have to do these things to save as many people as possible. Staying home is depressing but watching the infection/death totals is even more so.
I got a proposal for you. Let’s say there is a conspiracy and Trump won, Fauci is a moron who does not know what he is talking about and there was fraud but only in those states where Trump appears to lose. You got to be heard, so is time to act now, go out to the streets (without wearing masks because that is just oppression from extreme leftists to suppress your rights to wander around and besides the covid is just a tale Bill Gates and others invented to control people’s minds and sell fake vaccines, and wearing masks would just follow their sinister plot). What are you waiting for? why are not all of you in the streets yelling about the sinister plot of bringing down US of A without keeping distance from each other? why are you not showing the compromise with the great leader if he said there was a conspiracy and he ordered you to go out to the streets and protest? is it bs or not all that appears here? make up your minds and prove him right
Get off your couch, sew up a few masks, visit your neighbors(keeping your distance doesn’t mean don’t socialize). Oh, oh, oh, and talk to your spouse, don’t just whine.
Headlines should read: Over stressed hospital staff; ICU’s full to capacity; mortuaries full to overflowing; hospitals full. Because the depressed, drug addicts and failed suicides will have nowhere to go if the virus continues to rage through communities. Or indeed, the depressed, drug addicted people committing suicide could be over stressed health workers.
Did staying open crush the virus? Nope. But lets not address that, Chip. Even the Dakotas, Montana, and surrounding areas was doing just fine in their isolated rural environment. Then the largest annual motorcycle rally of mask deniers changed all that. Living in a bubble is nice until you’re smacked in the face by reality.
The CDC released the latest update on Covid deaths. As of 11/7/20 there are 220,704 deaths in the US.
Cardiac arrest 26,557
Alzheimer disease 8,253
Vascular and unspecified dementia 24,787
Malignant neoplasms 10,443
Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events 7,919
What? You said Covid. Heart attacks? Cancer? Dementia? Injuries and poisoning? What does any of the have to do with Covid? That’s like 75k plus “Covid” deaths that have little or nothing to do with Covid.
No, I am not saying it doesn’t exist. No, I am not saying the virus is not dangerous. But we are being played here. Heart attacks are not brought on by Covid. Cancer deaths have nothing to do with Covid. And attributing an INJURY death to Covid ia absolutely absurd.
If the virus is present in your body when you fall off a ladder and break your neck do you really think this should be reported as a Covid related death? Really?
I think we are all aware that medical experts agree that cloth masks are not effective against COVID. In fact, unless they are sanitized daily they are actually worse than going without a mask.
Despite which, when you walk into any hospital or UC center in the nation, the people at the door check your temperature but ALLOW you to wear that filthy rag you’ve been using for 3 months.
I’ve been to multiple medical facilities in southeastern WI since March. At no point have I been stopped and issued a correct paper mask if I stroll in with my cloth mask in place.
So, despite the shrill cries of the medical community the actual practitioners at street level are IGNORING what we are told is the the most basic, most important, procedure against contagion.
Say What Now‽ Premium Member over 3 years ago
It didn’t work because you didn’t behave yourselves.
RAGs over 3 years ago
It won’t “crush the virus” until the most people follow real medical advice. If even 20% run around spreading it the “shutdown” won’t work. THANKS DONNIE.
Concretionist over 3 years ago
IF we had had a hard shutdown. And IF we had used that time to set up good testing and tracing, and started pushing hard on the public service ads explaining how … and WHY to keep on wearing masks, and keeping on keeping on, which is what we would have had to accept in order to get off as lightly as possible… THEN… perhaps we would have done as well as possible. And it hasn’t crushed most souls, though I suppose the folks who really REALLY wanted it to be a hoax might feel that way.
Patjade over 3 years ago
I love how people like Baghdad Bok seem to think that if you don’t expose yourself to Covid, you’ll succumb to drugs, depression, and suicide. Maybe of the government were to do something, like, support people who are trying to stay safe, there would be less of the latter, and where are they getting the drugs? Seems they’re ignoring the shutdown to get drugs, so that can’t factor into it.
jvo over 3 years ago
Living in a city that did “crush the virus”, let me tell you it took months to do and the levels of restrictions were very tight. Of course it did help that the disease had not been politicised. We are all still being VERY careful here.
braindead Premium Member over 3 years ago
Bok, does your swimming pool have an okay to pee section?
.
Bok once again boldly illustrates Trump Disciple analysis skills.
done over 3 years ago
Shut down don’t do anything against the virus. The shutdown can only slow the spread so hospitals don’t become overwhelmed. Speaking of which, don’t get hurt in southern Idaho
Tigers in 2017,2019,2020 Premium Member over 3 years ago
In Victoria Australia we were on around 250 cases and 10 deaths, shut down and had mandatory mask wearing throughout the state, state peaked at just under 800 cases & around 25 deaths around 2 weeks later, this is equivalent (pro-rata) to 50,000 cases & 1,500 deaths for the US which were approximately the case load but higher death rate. The government and the state stuck to the guns for a further 6-8 weeks, currently we have 16 days straight, no cases, no deaths. Before you talk about testing, we do 15,000 -25,000 tests daily, equivalent to 1 – 1.5 million US tests. I don’t believe that you can do it now because of the partisanship but hopefully you can start to peg it back
Zev over 3 years ago
Gee, if only people took precautions early on, we might not be in this mess.
cdward over 3 years ago
The virus was brought to a much more manageable level despite the lack of a national response. That is, it helped where there actually were lockdown, pauses, mask mandates and social distancing rules. But most of the country ignored those science-informed guidelines and called it all a hoax. Too many commenters on this very site said, “Nobody’s going to tell ME what to do!” I seem to remember armed hooligans taking over the Michigan state house and plotting to kidnap and kill their governor over mask mandates. So, no, it was never crushed because it was never managed. And for the record, the scientists said from the beginning that these things come in waves, and that it would OT be “crushed” until there was an effective vaccine. The plan till then was simply to keep as many people as possible from dying. Sadly, the national leadership calculated that keeping people alive was not in their political interest.
Ontman over 3 years ago
Lady, you lost your soul when tRump was elected in 2016…talk about depression.
mourdac Premium Member over 3 years ago
If even 60% of the population had followed medical guidelines for wearing masks and social distancing and contact tracing had been instituted like in SE Asian nations which suffered far fewer deaths, COVFEFE-45 might have been controlled months ago. Instead Former-PINO Trump first politicized it before totally ignoring the worst pandemic since 1918, showing his total and complete lack of both leadership abilities and compassion.
jhayesd31 over 3 years ago
New Zeeland had ZERO cases yesterday. So functioning democracy is capable of defeating the virus.
A Nation where Fox News misinformation is the Primary source in 40 % of the population we had 91,000 NEW cases YESTERDAY
So Please chip. Explain to us how the Lockdown can’t work
Alberta Oil Premium Member over 3 years ago
With a few ounces of enthusiasm from trump.. And.. staying the course.. you would not be in nearly the dire straights you find yourself now. Your “cheerleader” led you astray.. now you suffer.
pc368dude over 3 years ago
“Your” people keep shooting themselves in the foot, Chip. Had so many ‘anti-mask’ yahoos not ignored the recommendations of epidemiology experts, we wouldn’t be here. Thanks to those wackos, my state is even considering a frickin’ curfew. That I have to suffer because of them – and people like you – royally pisses me off.
Radish the wordsmith over 3 years ago
If insanely stupid republicans had controlled the deadly virus in February like every expert told them to instead of encouraging its spread all over the USA we would not be in this position.
Republicans ruined the holidays.
RalphConti over 3 years ago
Well, it’s true that conservatives, especially Trump supporters are incredible weak snowflakes. they talk big and tough. they love to pose and evoke an image of our rugged forefathers; but they crumbled under the least inconveniences. As always though, Bok has an uncanny way of rejecting facts and reality. In this case, the shutdown. the plan only works of people cooperate and he has belittled it and opposed it from the start.
rmfrye Premium Member over 3 years ago
The virus feeds on ignorance. So, let’s keep everything open so the poor little virus can live.
MuddyUSA Premium Member over 3 years ago
Hey, just wait old Joe will lock done the country, businesses, all schools, and issue a stay home executive order. Wait for it!!!
Packratjohn Premium Member over 3 years ago
I’d rather be bored than dead. I think. I have plenty to do around here and a couple of good hobbies, no close neighbors, and live in a rural area. I am fortunate. I sympathize for those who are truly suffering.
Russell Madden Premium Member over 3 years ago
Cases don’t equal infections. The PRC test should only be run 25 cycles. They are running them at 35-40 cycles. Torture the data long enough, and you can get the result you’re looking for, i.e., false positives and an excuse to extend unconstitutional lockdowns.
Lockdowns have never worked to contain a pandemic. Until the current insanity, doctors knew they do not work. There were flu pandemics during 1957-58 and 1969-1970, that killed (adjusted for population) about as many people as this one. But people have forgotten science, forgotten history, forgotten common sense. I bet few people alive then even remember — or even knew! — a pandemic was occurring during Woodstock…
Lockdowns, masks, social distancing (I’m sick of that phrase…), hand scrubbing, scrubbing down surfaces…none of them have worked to contain coronavirus. Until we achieve collective immunity—which just means the virus becomes ENdemic rather than pandemic—this will continue. (And the common cold is a coronavirus. Millions of people have partial or full immunity to coronavirus because they had common colds in the past.) Coronaviruses return every year. Cyclical.
And for a disease that is 99.9+% survivable, the millions of excess lives LOST due to lockdowns is unconscionable. (Up to 130 million people in poor countries are at risk of starvation due to downturns in the world economy. Not to mention the increases in cancer deaths, suicides, domestic abuse, postponed surgical and other medical procedures that harm or kill people, millions of people losing their jobs, hundreds of thousands of businesses permanently gone, on and on and on.) Anyone who has a steady income or who can sit comfortably and work from home, needs to keep their nonsense to themselves.
And, did I mention? They’re unconstitutional:
https://www.scribd.com/document/476017344/Judge-Stickman-s-order-in-Butler-County-v-Wolf?fbclid=IwAR2Np1c9nWwFHhdDr0hsIxFuewSvMLUydAbJr7yEgC-_PC-Db-MPTH6Tmqk
wirepunchr over 3 years ago
@*MuddyUSA* : You know well that (and Biden does too) if the country is locked down almost 50 % of the country will ignore it. Biden knows reality and has to figure out the best path even for those who oppose him.
guyjen2004 Premium Member over 3 years ago
I just listened to a woman who lost both her husband’s parents (both registered democrats) to covid in NY due to the Governor’s policy to place covid patients in assisted living facilities. Both were trucked to the hospital just before they died, so in NY those deaths don’t count as a nursing home death. ONLY NY does that sort of shifty counting – all other states count those as nursing home deaths. The real number of nursing home covid deaths in NY is estimated to be more than double the official number.
walkingmancomics over 3 years ago
It’s not the shut down, it’s the lack of leadership throughout it.
Aliquid over 3 years ago
It is quite amazing when you look at the stats from various countries… say, looking at deaths per million.
England, France, Canada, etc. are all looking at a second wave, but the US is still in the first wave… it never stopped, it didn’t slow down over the summer like in every other developed country.
Wanye over 3 years ago
Wearing a mask and minimizing interpersonal contact to slow the spread has nothing to do with politics or personal freedom. As a civilization we simply have to do these things to save as many people as possible. Staying home is depressing but watching the infection/death totals is even more so.
JanaKralovna over 3 years ago
No, it was the last four years that crushed our souls.
ferddo over 3 years ago
Sure, better to open up and try to cash in before your clientele are too sick or dead to patronize you anymore…
cracker65 over 3 years ago
We are getting rid of one virus Jan 20th. Now to get rid of the other one.
Not the Smartest Man On the Planet -- Maybe Close Premium Member over 3 years ago
Yeah! Who needs them dumb masks, er a shutdown? LIVE FREE ER DIE! FREEE-DUMB!
redback over 3 years ago
I got a proposal for you. Let’s say there is a conspiracy and Trump won, Fauci is a moron who does not know what he is talking about and there was fraud but only in those states where Trump appears to lose. You got to be heard, so is time to act now, go out to the streets (without wearing masks because that is just oppression from extreme leftists to suppress your rights to wander around and besides the covid is just a tale Bill Gates and others invented to control people’s minds and sell fake vaccines, and wearing masks would just follow their sinister plot). What are you waiting for? why are not all of you in the streets yelling about the sinister plot of bringing down US of A without keeping distance from each other? why are you not showing the compromise with the great leader if he said there was a conspiracy and he ordered you to go out to the streets and protest? is it bs or not all that appears here? make up your minds and prove him right
Duane Ott over 3 years ago
Get off your couch, sew up a few masks, visit your neighbors(keeping your distance doesn’t mean don’t socialize). Oh, oh, oh, and talk to your spouse, don’t just whine.
The Love of Money is . . . over 3 years ago
I remember when Trump and the GOP “SHUTDOWN” the Government. That worked out so well . . . . . . . /s
grumpypophobart over 3 years ago
Headlines should read: Over stressed hospital staff; ICU’s full to capacity; mortuaries full to overflowing; hospitals full. Because the depressed, drug addicts and failed suicides will have nowhere to go if the virus continues to rage through communities. Or indeed, the depressed, drug addicted people committing suicide could be over stressed health workers.
DrDon1 over 3 years ago
Bok’s attitude is depressing…
maes.rick over 3 years ago
Trumpty dumpty tried to stallTrumpty dumpty said “screw you all”But all of his lawyers and all of his friendsCouldnt make trumpty the president again.
ndblackirish97 over 3 years ago
Did staying open crush the virus? Nope. But lets not address that, Chip. Even the Dakotas, Montana, and surrounding areas was doing just fine in their isolated rural environment. Then the largest annual motorcycle rally of mask deniers changed all that. Living in a bubble is nice until you’re smacked in the face by reality.
DeepState over 3 years ago
Drugs, depression, suicide… Four years of Rump have been devastating.
Radish the wordsmith over 3 years ago
Republicans have turned the USA into their version of hell.
Andylit Premium Member over 3 years ago
The CDC released the latest update on Covid deaths. As of 11/7/20 there are 220,704 deaths in the US.
Cardiac arrest 26,557
Alzheimer disease 8,253
Vascular and unspecified dementia 24,787
Malignant neoplasms 10,443
Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events 7,919
What? You said Covid. Heart attacks? Cancer? Dementia? Injuries and poisoning? What does any of the have to do with Covid? That’s like 75k plus “Covid” deaths that have little or nothing to do with Covid.
No, I am not saying it doesn’t exist. No, I am not saying the virus is not dangerous. But we are being played here. Heart attacks are not brought on by Covid. Cancer deaths have nothing to do with Covid. And attributing an INJURY death to Covid ia absolutely absurd.
If the virus is present in your body when you fall off a ladder and break your neck do you really think this should be reported as a Covid related death? Really?
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR2-muRM3tB3uBdbTrmKwH1NdaBx6PpZo2kxotNwkUXlnbZXCwSRP2OmqsI#Comorbidities
Andylit Premium Member over 3 years ago
Food for thought.
I think we are all aware that medical experts agree that cloth masks are not effective against COVID. In fact, unless they are sanitized daily they are actually worse than going without a mask.
Despite which, when you walk into any hospital or UC center in the nation, the people at the door check your temperature but ALLOW you to wear that filthy rag you’ve been using for 3 months.
I’ve been to multiple medical facilities in southeastern WI since March. At no point have I been stopped and issued a correct paper mask if I stroll in with my cloth mask in place.
So, despite the shrill cries of the medical community the actual practitioners at street level are IGNORING what we are told is the the most basic, most important, procedure against contagion.
Almost as if they know something we don’t.