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  1. over 14 years ago on Ted Rall

    I looked back at my posts and couldn’t find where I proposed to continue doing the same thing we have done for the last eight years. As a point of criticism, it seems you make large assumptions or imagine points that I have made then attempt to discredit me by attacking your own hallucinations. Without writing a thesis on how to ‘win’ in Afghanistan we can: 1) Figure out what is working in the West and North. What from those regions can be applied to the South? 2) Engage moderate Muslim countries to help educate and build. Bin Laden earned the love of the Afghans by fighting the Soviets and by building. Through this he also earned enough to help finance Al Qaeda. Find dozens of Bin Ladens in the Muslim world that aren’t filled with hatred and start building. Unfortunately, we spent the last several years destroying all good will in most Muslim nations so finding true ‘allies’ will be a challenge. 3) Pay them to learn to read and write.

    I could go on. None of those proposals are easy. None can be accomplished in the short term. Combat operations will be necessary but as long as we are focused on body counts and ‘killing terrorists’ we will not help the Afghan people. Americans tend to see wars through WWII tainted glasses, ie kill the enemy, take territory, install a new government, done. Those days are over as the Iraqis proved to us with our war that concluded ‘combat operations’ after a few months but continued fighting for another 5+ years. The United States military is the undisputed master of destroying our enemy’s armies, navies and air forces. Where we are failing in Afghanistan and initially stumbled in Iraq goes beyond the fighting. Afghanistan is worse than Iraq and I don’t think we will commit to pulling them out of the toilet we flushed on them back in 2001.

    As far as Afghanistan being a Germany or Japan, again your imagination guides you wrong. I specifically stated that Afghanistan does not have to be a Germany or Japan to be a safe, stable country. The people of Afghanistan love Afghanistan. The US Constitution is a great document for giving people what they need to succeed. The ultimate challenge is to combine their love of their nation with a system that allows them to succeed. This would take us making a commitment to them that I just do not see us having the stomach for.

    I wholeheartedly agree with you that our current policies and leadership give us no realistic prospect for success.

  2. over 14 years ago on Ted Rall

    Linus, I’m faced with an interesting dilemma here. Do I allow myself to be dragged down to your level and be beaten with experience or do I continue along the lines of logic and reason?

    We weren’t discussing why the wars were started. Rathering than get into a philosophical discussion regarding why wars start I will state that it would be difficult to find a war that the US participated in, other than the our own War of Independence, that was justified or necessary. Some of them, on the surface, may appear more ‘heroic’ than others, but all are started by failings of policy or leadership, be it ours or someone elses. Starting wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are three perfect examples of our failures of policy and leadership.

    The original discussion was about achieving a win or a loss…how nations that we previous fought against grasped the concepts of our Constitution and are better off for it. We are in a war that (like it or not) we started in Afghanistan. Afghanistan will be better off when we win and help build it into a stable nation.

  3. over 14 years ago on Ted Rall

    Failing to invade North Vietnam is what lost that war. Wars cannot be fought with one hand tied around your unit. Fighting that war half-assed caused great suffering here and there. My point is this: after we left, Vietnam suffered some extremely difficult years under the communist regime. Now that they are slowly opening their society and gravitating towards participating in the world ‘like us’, they are beginning to prosper.

    Only a fool would try to split a rock with his head. The benefit of intelligence allows one to study the rock, choose the correct tool for the job and the splitting of the rock is accomplished.

    Moral weakness in the US is not “all that stands” in the way but since we started the latest round of slaughter there, it starts with us. Afghanistan doesn’t have to be a Germany or Japan to be stable. I know it stings a lot of people that Iraq is turning out much better than most had hoped. They’ve got a long way to go, no doubt, but nations are not rebuilt in a day, nor a decade. Afghanistan is by far the greater challenge.

    You made some extremely piss poor assumptions about me in your last paragraph. If you cannot counter with anything other than inventions of your imagination, please do not respond. Thus ends any attempt to take you seriously.

  4. over 14 years ago on Ted Rall

    You don’t stay to lose. Anyone that would consider that an option is too weak to be in a position of leadership. Stay, keep planting the seed until it takes root. The problem with the USA right now is we are too morally weak to commit to it what it would take.

    It’s funny that you point out that Vietnam “has made a lot of changes and isn’t on the US enemies list anymore”. How did the country fair under communism/socialism in the years after we chose to ‘leave and lose’? What were those changes that made them improve? Was it finally leaning towards an open, educated, capitalist, democratic society? Yep, it sure was.

  5. over 14 years ago on Ted Rall

    List of countries that we have fought against or defended and are now our Allies: Germany Japan South Korea

    List of countries that have rejected the “American way of life”: North Korea Vietnam Cuba Iran

    Anyone see a pattern there? If Afghanistan is ‘lost’ does anyone honestly think it will improve in any way, shape or form once we are gone? The fact is that no matter how evil the posters here what to make us seem, we are fortunate and our allies are fortunate.

  6. over 14 years ago on Ted Rall

    List of countries that we have fought against or defended and are now our Allies: Germany Japan South Korea

    List of countries that have rejected the “American way of life”: North Korea Vietnam Cuba Iran

    Anyone see a pattern there? If Afghanistan is ‘lost’ does anyone honestly think it will improve in any way, shape or form once we are gone? The fact is that no matter how evil the posters here what to make us seem, we are fortunate and our allies are fortunate.